Grey – Australia 2022

Potentially the next speaker of the house after Tony Smith announced his retirement. Ramsay isn’t a high profile minister and has been in parliament for 14 years so it’s entirely possible he is next speaker. Any ideas who could be next speaker if not Ramsay?

Michael Mc Cormack

This is Australia’s rustbelt seat. Once a Labor seat but with decline of the industry & retributions have benefited the LNP.

This seat now literally extends from the Urban fringe of Adelaide to the borders of WA, Vic, QLD and NSW. With very little population growth wonder if a future redistribution will force into including some of the working class Northern Adelaide suburbs.

There may be too much objection if they try and force Grey into more of urban Adelaide. If requiring expansion, Grey may be better to take more of the Riverland from Barker, then Barker expands into the Adelaide Hills and Mayo becomes another urban seat. This makes 2 pure rural seats and the remainder all in greater Adelaide.

Yoh An, what about if Grey takes the Riverland and then Baker expands to take Fleurieu Peninsula and Kangaroo Island. Mayo could then take some of the Eastern Suburbs of Adelaide along with the Adelaide Hills with Sturt potentially abolished? The Adelaide Hills is quite affluent so i dont know if it should be in a rural seat.

Yes, that sounds reasonable in a future redistribution. Although an option would be Sturt expanding to take in the Adelaide Hills, Kangaroo Island included with Kingston (this configuration occurs with the state seat of Mawson) and Barker extending just to the edge of Victor Harbour/Goolwa, thus making Mayo the seat that is effectively abolished.

In terms of naming, Sturt could be removed since it commemorates a colonial explorer and the name Mayo applied to the district covering the Adelaide Hills and eastern suburbs.

Yoh An, agree. I am keen for name Mayo to be retained as it named after a pioneering woman and for Sturt to be retired when possible due to its colonial aspects.

Nimalan
Sturt to be retired when possible due to its colonial aspects. What do you mean by this ?

I can’t see how Sturt should be retired, given he discovered South Australia, and that he actually (unlike most early settlers) propitiated with Indigenous people, meaning there were no scuffles or massacres.

I think both Sturt and Mayo should stay as names – if you have to get rid of a name, ditch Boothby, he was merely a returning officer. In terms of names, I’d have ditched Boothby over Wakefield last time.

I have no idea who Boothby is. Meanwhile, Wakefield was named after a colonialist who kidnapped a 15-year-old girl in 1827 and got a 3 year jail term. Choices.

I have no idea who Boothby is. Meanwhile, Wakefield was named after a colonialist who kidnapped a 15-year-old girl in 1827 and got a 3 year jail term. Choices.

Also until I researched it I legitimately thought Wakefield was named after the invention of the chocolate cookie, who actually isn’t Australian *facepalm*.

Correct William Boothby was a returning officer but given he did it for the first ever federal election there is some prominence given. Also when he was the returning officer in South Australia prior to to Federation and pioneered the Secret Ballot, a world first often referred to as the Australian ballot in those days. Also Boothby dates back to 1903 while Sturt dates back to 1949.

WD, Colonial aspects means that they were named after British people rather than Australians. If a seat dates back to Federation etc like Macquarie/Hindmarsh i am keen to retain it for historical continuity. We have seen the same trend occur for example the name Reid was retained over Lowe, Cowan retained over Stirling and recently Clark and Nicholls renamed from Denison and Murray respectively. i see that trend continuing i predict some of the next to go will be Hotham, Gellibrand and Shortland

Nimalan

I would consider another reason as to why Cowan was kept over Stirling, mainly as Edith Cowan is quite simply a more well-known individual here in Perth.
Whenever people talk about Governor Stirling it’s generally in reference to the inn on the Stirling Highway which are both named after him.
Stirling has a lot more things named after him:
Stirling Gardens (outside the Supreme Court)
Stirling Central Shopping Centre in Westminster
Governor Stirling Senior High School in Woodbridge
Captain Stirling Hotel, Pharmacy, Medical Centre and Shopping Centre
Stirling Street (one street back from Beaufort Street, south of Highgate)
The City of Stirling (people tried to rename it this year)
and the suburb of Stirling.

While knowledge about him certainly hasn’t permeated through WA, the knowledge about the Pinjarra massacres have, and it’s only inevitable that these names are changed, as we shouldn’t be honouring someone who partook in ethnic cleansing and genocide in the early days of the Swan River colony.

I have a feeling a seat named after former PM Keating would likely be in south Western Sydney, which I guess would help find a spot for it.

Ryan, Good point about Cowan/Stirling. Also i just want to be clear i am not accusing Sturt of committing any crimes etc. For me it was about priority and that there are many Australians who deserve to be recognised and have a seat named after them. Sturt already has quite a few things named after him including a suburb, highway, national park in NSW and an LGA. I am keen on Federation seats being retained so i was disappointed when Melbourne Ports was renamed Macnamara i would have preferred if Hotham was renamed instead.

Nimalan
Without being provocative (for once !) Id suggest that your premise of australian vs British is a poor one given historical context. Until 1901 we were 6 British colonies or 7 if you count NZ.there was NO Australia.
I won’t bang on with a faux historical lecture. However Sturt was a typical (maniacal) explorer. These lunatics aren’t like normal people they go on risking their lives when normal (healthy) folk would give up & go home !
Unless you want to unfairly change the names of about 20 seats, they do deserve to be celebrated for suffering, & bleeding, if not dying for our land !
The argument for separating geographical names such as riverina, or regional cities Bendigo is far stronger ie state fed.
Until the name Phillip is restored (Arthur Phillip) & Morshead our 2nd greatest general & 1/2 dozen VC winners (war heroes) ie Middleton, Edmonton, Jacka are celebrated, please no more grubby pollies, especially PM’s!!!!!.

Ryan Spencer Nimalan Anton Kreitzer
Hers a great idea on who needs to be immortalised immediately
Doris Henschke . What a legend !!.
iN 1979 Doris emptied both barrels of a shotgun into the head of her husband Cyril Henschke. A year later she was acquitted of murder (charges) ! . This was obviously a first, & provided a precedent, & obvious solution to the massively costly issue of domestic violence. Cyril is celebrated by the naming of eden valley’s greatest Cabernet Sauvignon (nicknamed “the wife-beater”) !

As deceased former Prime Ministers get first dibs on seat naming, there will be a problem at some stage in NSW. There are four former NSW based PMs – Keating, Howard, Abbott, Turnbull – who will at some stage need a seat named after them – that doesn’t even count Morrison and potentially Albo. NSW will run out of seats to name after PMs.

Henschke is indeed a legend, upon reading about her.

The only way we can really accommodate all these names is by increasing the sizes of both houses.

NSW still has a few geographic-based names that could be turned into commemorative names: North Sydney, Warringah, Berowra, Parramatta, Werriwa…..even Eden-Monaro, Riverina, New England and Richmond if you wanted to expand into the regions.

e.g. I can easily see one of North Sydney, Berowra or Warringah getting renamed ‘Howard’, for example.

WD, agree with your point about the point of separating Australians/British especially in the context of the times. Until 1949, there was no concept of Australian Citizenship and prior to that Australians were British subjects like a quarter of the global population at that time. Maybe Sturt should be retained in such a case. As i said i am not trying to promote a cancel culture and not criticising Sturt. Interesting Albert Jacka was one of those who i am keen for a seat named for in Victoria along with Weary Dunlop. Also i would like to see more non politicians such as artists, activists, authors etc being recognised with a seat named after them. Some people i would like to recognise include Charles Perkins, Simon Wonga, Yagan, Margaret Tucker, Jack Mundey. I would also like to see Streeton and Lawson return in future. I think this may occur if both houses of parliament are expanded as Ryan said. This may occur around the time Australia’s populations hits around 30 million mark as it would have doubled in size from 1984, when parliament was last expanded.

Options, retaining current territory senator : state senator ratio and nexus
First option-
24 senators per state, 4 senators per territory for a total of 152 senators.
Which therefore means 304 MHRs.
Second option-
18 senators per state, 3 senators per territory for a total of 114 senators.
Which therefore means 228 MHRs.
Based on current population data;
Option A: 85,096 people per district.
Option B: 113,462 people per district

For the following; Option A/Option B, given that the AEC estimates 17,568,585 Australians are eligible to vote (regardless of whether they are actually enrolled to do so):
NSW: 96/71
VIC: 78*/57
QLD: 62/46
WA: 31/23
SA: 22/16
TAS: 7/5
ACT: 5*/4
NT: 3/2
*The final seat in this simulation would be close between the ACT and Victoria although Victoria would get it on current data.

In terms of WA people, I would love for people like Yagan to get a seat named after them.

I think the next South Australian redistribution – which is still someway off – is likely to be pretty minimalist. The electorates are pretty well defined now: seven suburban, two regional, and one hybrid (Mayo).

If Grey needs to expand it would do so by shifting further around the urban perimeter, taking the remainder of Light LGA (sans Gawler Belt) and, if it needs to go further, pushing into the Barossa. Compensating adjustments would see Barker encroach towards the Fleurieu peninsula – the Strathalbyn area would probably suffice. Victor Harbor & Kangaroo Island stay in Mayo.

https://www.tallyroom.com.au/aus2022/grey2022/comment-page-1#comment-756375

The Senate is not going to be expanded by 12 or even 6 Senators per state in one go. That would be too many more politicians for the voters to tolerate.

The territory senator : state senator ratio is not fixed in the constitution (although the High Court won`t let Parliament give them a hugely disproportionately large share of seats). Doubling the number of territory Senators (with the introduction of staggered 6 year terms) was a suggested alternate option in the recent inquiry into the fair representation of the NT.

https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Joint/Electoral_Matters/FairRepresentationofNT/Report/section?id=committees%2freportjnt%2f024502%2f73312

Altering the nexus to include the territory seats is another option. It would however require either a referendum or the High Court to change its mind on the matter (possibly also requiring legislation).

It was reported in The Advertiser that Senator Rex Patrick is considering ditching his bid to run for reelection in the senate and running for this seat in the House of Reps instead.

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/senator-rex-patrick-considering-running-for-outback-seat-of-grey-at-next-federal-election/news-story/d8494fdd9ef237cab1da6d4c6455e390

While not a good idea, certainly not the worst. Maybe this is clearing the way for Xenophon???

According to Wikipedia, Rex Patrick seems to have spent some time in his formative years in Whyalla so has some connection with Grey. The Xenophon team came very close to winning Grey in 2016 so there may be some residual infrastructure to build on. Also if Nick X runs for the senate they could possibly leverage off each other. Should Rex Patrick run, what is the status of the casual vacancy in the Senate seeing as the NXT structure that Rex Patrick was elected under no longer exists? Can that go to Nick X. and give him a further platform? Timing is important too as the SA parliament will need to be prorogued at some juncture before the March election.

In response to redistributed, the Centre Alliance party (successor to NXT) may be best placed to take up any casual vacancy.

This was the case back in 1977 I believe with Liberal Movement Senator Steele Hall. He switched to the Liberal Party during his Senate term, then resigned to successfully run for the House seat of Boothby. As the Liberal Movement no longer existed as a party, the SA state parliament saw the Australian Democrats as the ‘successor’ party and appointed Janine Haines to Steele Hall’s vacant Senate seat.

Is anyone actually talking about the seat of Grey or is it a discourse on Australian history? Ramsay will win with daylight coming second.

It was a speculated by Samantha Maiden on Insiders that Liz Habermann the independent canidate for the state seat of Flinders could stand in this seat. What would go against Habermann though is how much bigger a federal electorate is to a state seat. And the lack of time left to campaign before the next federal election is called- probably means it would be too late to make a serious run at it.

Habermann is standing and is backed by Barry Waklin previous liberal mp.if We take the sa state election the liberals hold 2 seats. On 8% margin the other approx 3%…. the rest independents or Labor. If I were Mr Ramsay I would worry

I have Grey in as a smokey to watch on election night. Looking at the 2019 PV breakdown, the SA election results and general expectation of a swing against the LNP you’d have to say Habermann is a decent chance here.

Anyone with local knowledge in this part of the country?

I have Liz Habermann down as a smoky too. Let’s hope she can get her message out. Doesn’t seem to have big money backing. Many in that seat now regularly vote Independent at State level. Would love to hear news from ground too.

Would love to have more info on this seat.

Of the state seats.. Frome lib 8% naugh excuse spelling ind 8% Giles alp 15% Stuart ind 17% Flinders where habermann ran and most conservative electorate libs by 3% add them together and…..

Renowned indigenous leader, activist and public administrator, and patron of the Lowitja Institute, Dr Lowitja O’Donoghue, AC, CBE, DSG, died yesterday.

Among SA’s 10 federal divisions, 6 are named after a colonial-era man who died before 1910. Makin is named after a 20th century Australian male politician. Only 2, Spence and Mayo, are named after a woman. None is named after an indigenous Australian.

Considering O’Donoghue was born in SA and died in SA, I will propose at the next SA federal redistribution due in July 2025, that a division be named in O’Donoghue’s honour.

Considering that SA will still be entitled to 10 seats at the next redistribution unless there is an expansion of Parliament, an existing seat has to be renamed in order to honour Dr O’Donoghue.

The divisions of Barker, Grey and Sturt are named after colonial British men whose names can be retired. I would propose renaming Grey to O’Donoghue, because:

1 The namesake of the division, Sir George Grey, was a colonial administrator who played a key role in the colonisation of SA and NZ, as well as the purchase and annexation of Māori land. His legacy is hurtful to indigenous people within Grey, especially considering Grey has the highest proportion of indigenous residents among all SA divisions.

2 O’Donoghue was born in Grey.

3 The name of Grey was much less recognisable than Sturt and Barker. Charles Sturt University and the City of Charles Sturt share their namesake with the division of Sturt. Mount Barker, the largest town in the Adelaide Hills, shares its namesake with the division of Barker. By contrast, I cannot not name any notable entity in Australia that shares its namesake with the Division of Grey.

4 The division of Wakefield was renamed Spence despite it being one of the 7 single-member federal divisions in SA. Its namesake, Edward Gibbon Wakefield, was a key figure in the establishment of the colonies of SA and NZ and promoted colonisation as a tool for social engineering. The abduction scandal also made his legacy all the more controversial. In 2020, some Wellington (NZ) councillors called for Wakefield monuments to be removed. The division of Grey could be renamed for similar reasons.

Therefore, I would propose at the next SA federal redistribution that the division of Grey be renamed O’Donoghue.