Hastings – Victoria 2010

1. The northern areas around Langwarrin, Baxter, and Sommerville (the northern part of ‘Central’) are increasingly being drawn into Melbourne’s suburban sprawl despite being 50-odd kilometres away from the city. In the south, Hastings itself is an industrial town with a large steelworks, while in the far south are seaside communities with a 15% Green vote, obviously seeing some seachange types.

   The rest of the seat is semi-rural and Liberal voting, albeit with steadily creeping urbanisation from the Frankston and Cranbourne overflow.

2. Neale Burgess won by a very small margin in 2006, and has a reputation of piggy-backing on popular issues over which he has no effective influence, eg. police budgets, road safety. In parliament he is noisy and ineffectual. In short, all hat and no trousers. He could be beaten by a strong labor candidate (do they have one?) and an increased interest in green issues could reduce his margin.

3. The Labor candidate is a local. He was born in the area, grew up in the area, was educated, played sport, works and still lives in the area. He is a strong leader involved in the areas events such as the westernport festival, church fetes, etc. He has had a pedestrian crossing built across the 4 lane Frankston Flinders road in Tyabb, is saving the Tyabb Baseball club, has started a community charity which has already benefited many in the community and is a mentor to many of the local kids which attend his voluntary run Tball training sessions. He is a proven representative of the people and well respected by his peers and ex-employers. Unfortunately limited funds make it hard to get all of this into the public eye. And I know. Because it’s me.

4. @ Dingo, “no effective Influence” is utter rubbish. Neale Burgess with his Influence, voice, petitions, rallies, passion & enthusiasm protested with hundreds of locals to Keep the Hastings Police Station open 24 hours a day when the Brumby government was going to close it over night. His influence changed the outcome.
   After years of constant pressure, petitions, rallies& interviews all the level crossings along the Stony Point train line are now getting Boom gates put in thanks to Neale Burgess, who with family members of the people that have been killed fought to get the boom gates installed after the Brumby Government deemed the crossings unimportant and low on the list.
   Trying to make the Labor Government accountable is not ineffectual Dingo. How dare you say that bringing any serious Issue into the forefront of Parliament and therefore the wider community is ineffectual. The plight of the innocent children placed into the charge of convicted sex offenders has to be brought out into public knowledge, That was done, Thanks to Neale Burgess.

5. I sympathise with locals who are emotionally involved with the issues about which Mr Neale Burgess has been grandstanding. I am one of them myself. However, every issue is an opportunity for publicity and his real contribution is minimal.
   For instance the child protection action claimed for him consisted of noisy and unhelpful interjections after the issue was actually raised by Ted Baillieu in May. Burgess was named and ejected from the parliament. Publicity of a sort was achieved but positive action – nil.

6. Hastings electorate has a notional Liberal bias of 7.3% and yet Mr Burgess was elected in 2006 by a 1% margin. This means that a lot of self-identified Liberal voters voted against their own candidate. He is obviously not popular even with his own party faithful.

7. What do you mean, “notional Liberal bias”?

8. That is a great question. The term “notional Bias” and the 7.3% number is from the top of this page in tallyroom.com.au and also referenced on Wikipedia and is historical from 2002. I presumed that it meant the average long-term historical voting bias of the polling places (which are tallied separately by VEC) which were included in the new electorate of Hastings when it was created in 2002. I could not find a definition on Tallyroom or a more recent figure. It is important to know the background party preferences of any electorate in order to judge any candidate’s performance.

9. It’s not long-term, just the way the booths voted in 1999. (Such a figure would be dodgy anyway, due to Susan Davies doing well in the booths that had been in Gippsland West.)

10. The term Ben correctly used was ‘margin’, not ‘bias’. ‘Bias’ is a term which one does see used in the US where people try to estimate the long-term voting pattern of a particular district. Here the figure simply refers to the fact that there was a redistribution between the 1999 and 2002 elections, and that, based on how the booths within the new boundaries voted in 1999, that notional margin is estimated.

    Also worth noting that state-wide there was a 7.6% 2PP swing to Labor in 2002, so that result was right in line with the overall state-wide swing.

11. In other countries, bias means the same as margin when referring to voting patterns, the correct term for the statistical effect you are calling “bias” is “trend”. Neale Burgess has only a 1% margin in this electorate when one would expect, because of the “urban spread into the area, he would have about 7% if all liberal leaners had voted for him.

12. Neale Burgess has spent heaps on billboards with his favorite photo smiling at us. I love them,he looks so intelligent. They are on nearly every street corner and at least one illegally positioned at Balnarring.

13. I have just seen two of Burgess’ billboards on the same road in Somerville. He plans to open a 24 hour police station in Somerville and a technical college for the same town. Firstly I think the tech school idea is detrimental to the education in the area. Admittedly it does give young people the opportunity to learn a trade… but with the Somervile High School only currently going from years 7-10 it seems to discourage academic eduation in the area, with young people being funnelled into trades after dropping out at year 10.

    Secondly, the police station is a shocking idea. In the local area, there are already 24 hourpolice stations in mornington, Frankston and Hastings and there is simply no need for another one. According to both parties the police numbers are already very stretched, and in the small quiet town of Somerville, it seems very wasteful and unnecessary. It seems to be ironic to me because the LIberals constantly carry on the Labor wastes money, yet Burgess’ plans seem very wasteful!

    I agree with “Dingo’s” earlier comments about Burgess jumping on the bandwagon with certain issue. By doing this, he gives me the impression that only aims to represent people in the community who are behind these issues. He doesnt seem to be widely representative in the electorate and seems out of touch with the community. I think a candidate like Steve Hosking who seems to have a good loal profile and a strong sense of community would be a good local member for Hastings.

14. I attended an ACL organised forum last night – Aside from his representation in the community in “the smaller localised and short term picture, Mr HOSKING appears to have blinkers on with regard to local serious issues given his long term history and exposures in the area. His ALP flyer indicates a substantial reductiion in crime and a significnat increase of police resources in the Hastings PSA ? Absolute untruthful rubbish!!! In a forum 09/10/10 he went on to say a nephew stationed at Frankston stated that Hastings PS has no problem and is running fine with a reduction in crime???? another relative in a covert area has also provided information???? Members providing inaccurate and blatently false info to politicians is not in the public interest or in their own interest! Ethics out the window again!

    His responses to most questions last night; “Thats a difficult question” “That something that occured before I took up the position”

    I understand its his debut but I was confused with his vague projected support in his party and his responses on the night were dissapointing!!

    Somerville Police Station – Although I (we) dont entirely agree with the Police Station idea, it does cement in a necessary police contingent that would be difficult for current politicised senior Police to simply relocate. for example, Currently our local police are robbed to provide resources to short term bandaide responses in the CBD! We suffer at the expense of political point scoring!

    I had these same public safety issues out with the former ALP member who was also providing misleading and untruthful information to the community based on apparent party instruction, the majority of local people saw through the lies and that member lost her seat!. Needles to say, myself and one of the most ethical and effective senior police officers in the state (38years Exp) lost great carreers for raising the community safety matters!

    Please voters, dont repeat that scenario Its’s probably not you but your children will suffer in the long run!

    The local Liberal, DLP and greens members to this date have given me no serious reason to doubt thier ethics and integrity! great work Members and thankyou for your efforts to date.

    Happy to discuss the matter and provide evidence, most locals know where to find me!
    Adam

15. I always thought that decisions about staffing of police stations were made by Police Command, as part of their annual budgetting, and were not direct State Government decisions. Ideally, the same applies for the location of new police stations.
    I note that the overall police budget for 2008/9 was $1.75 bn, for 2009/10 it was $1.9 bn, and for the current year 2010/11 it is $2 bn. Both parties have promised extra funding for training of more police officers and the Government also plans to put 250 police officers, currently in administrative roles, back on the beat. Did the Hastings Police Station ever cease being a 24 hour station? I haven’t heard of it.

16. Mustafa, ideally you are correct in what you say, however, reality is that the Police Command of today are just political puppets employed for a purpose and that purpose is not the Police Code of Ethics or Conduct! Seperation of power is lost in Vicpol and for that matter, the OPI as i have seen it (first hand as a complainant agianst senior vicpol officers). It needs to be changed and the people and staff need to be the force behind the force, not the Govt! Both parties make a lot of promises, the ALP have been in power for two terms and our emergency services are deteriorating rapidly, Dont take my word ask a local paramedic or non ladder climbing coppa! Hastings Police station ceased being a true 24Hr police station some time ago, one man in the station is not safe and not in accordance with Occupational Health and Safety. Emmet DUNNE had the numerous firearms removed form the station to avoid breaching the firearms act (again) when the stattion is left unattended! Administrative coppas will never return to service as such because of rediculous red tape associated with political checks and balances! Have a look at how many serving members sit in the Media Unit to protect WONDERLAND and BRUMBY from adverse press. I am surprised that the last comments were actually published!

17. I make no appologies for defending myself. Most politicians would stay hidden and let this pass, but as I am not a politician………..

    Thanks Adam. Unfortunately you have mis-heard me on many occasions.

    I never said “a nephew stationed at Frankston” as I have no nephews. And I informed the audience he stated to me that Hastings has new staff and is reporting less crime than before.

    My “uncle” never mentioned the Hastings police station and I mearly listed him as my links to the police and never stated he “provided information”.

    And you quoted me as saying “thats a difficult question” on most responses. Utterly untrue. It’s not even a comment I would make. If I was ever to say anything the like, it would be “thats a tough one”, which I admit using sparingly.

    The flyer indicates a reduction in crime across the peninsula, not just in Hastings and the drop in crime and police numbers were since 1999.

    Yes 1999. “The ALP have been in power for” three “terms” not two.

    And unless my pay packet is going into the wrong account, I am a stay-home-Dad of four while my wife is studying. Not a politician.

    We can all pick out things we dislike with others. As I mentioned on the night. But I do like to remain as positive as I can.

    Here are two examples of “dissapointing” “responses” which effected me.

    In 1998 with a Liberal Government, I had the mis-fortune of having a man stand on my front lawn and threaten to shoot me because I told him to stop hooning past my Delepan drive address. I gave the Hastings police the mans car registration but was told nothing could be done. I find this a “dissapointing” response.

    And the only people ever to enter my home without permission were two Hastings police officers who came in at 2am of the same year waking and frightening my wife. She woke me and as I charged up the hall to confront the two men shining torches in my face they called out “police” and asked me what I was doing in the home, barely awake and dressed only in boxer shorts. I wondered if they thought I was trying out the bed or trying on boxer shorts? No. They told me my alarm was going off and my front door was unlocked and I should lock it. My alarm was not turned on and why should I lock the front door? I find this a “dissapointing” response.

    I have not detailed these past Hastings police issues I have had outside my family, for reasons of respect towards the Hastings Police, but since I am being attacked by a “former Hastings police” member……

    Finally, I can tell you, the assistance I have given so far to the families of dying wives and mothers, stroke victims and single mothers with cancer don’t regard my assistance as “smaller” and “short term”. And nor do I.

    I appreciate your honesty and passion, but I believe you have made too many errors in your recollection to attack my person.

18. Steve aside from the uncle nephew (relative) comment (semantics really) for which i do appologise, new staff and less crime at Hastings??? Not additional staff and not a reduction in crime. Still one van patrolling in excess of 700 square Ks which is not satisfactory. The station is less resourced from a actual patrol capability than it was in the late 80’s. There is an interesting story behind the ALP use of 1999 statistics. Three years for Labour to correct issues, thats worse than two and we are in even worse shape across the State. “Difficult Vs Tough” question again same same in context and you did on several occasions and on at least two occasions indicate that particular ALP issues were in place before you took the position. The former Inspector in charge of the entire Mornigton Peninsula was present at the forum and I would suggest to you that your flyer is nothing short of rubbish with regard to crime and resources! In actual fact his question related to that exact issue was screened by the ACL for whatever reason! I am sure you will have the oppertunity to answer his specific questions and explain where those statistics came from in good time!
    Sorry Hastings is part of the Peninsula and the Peninsula is in pretty much the same position as too is Frankston. So 12 odd years ago you had an issue with Victoria Police Members Steve what has that got to do with public safety issues today and me personally if thats where you are coming from? Did you take the matter up in the manner that you should have?? Members apparently attempted to do the right thing by investigating an alarm activation with a front door wide open? seriously Steve, you need to work through those issues! I am sure Tony ABBOTT scared a few people in his speedos and that was day time! (sorry that was a bit of humour) I am not attacking you for what you have done, stop patting yourself on the back, a lot of us on the peninsula have done a lot more than expected for the electorates people and that the nature of most attracted to the Job!!!! I am however stating what your party and you as OUR ALP representative hasn’t done and where they and you as their rep are printing rubbish and making comments in official forums that are also in the same boat!
    Steve, I am not decided totally on what party to vote for and thats why I attend these forums, your parties misleading publications and performance in serious matters of public safety and essential services have however have made my decision easy with regard to considering the ALP! Rosy BUCHANNAN did a lot of good work but had a similar approach to statistics of public safety interest and i didnt vote for her either . Still happy to talk to you on these issues that you still appear a little misinformed on. By the way, have a chat with your local Paramedics as well (in private as they will loose their jobs if they speak publically under this government)!

19. Candidates in ballot paper order are:

    Steve Hosking – Labor
    Dan Martin – Country Alliance
    Rob Jones – DLP
    Joe Mavrikos – Sex Party
    Melanie Marcin – Family First
    Aldona Martin –
    Neale Burgess – Liberal
    Catherine Manning – Greens

20. It occured to me while reading some of the more Anti Liberal quotes that certain terminology used in the forum text is i am told the same as the evidence to Criminal Damage recorded on Liberal Party placards around the Hastings Electorate? Just hope that the responsible parties to the crimes are the same identifiable person(s) posting here??

21. I am disappointed that Adam has discovered evidence of the very serious crime of “criminal damage” to legally and illegally positioned electoral posters, even if they do constitute visual pollution to most of us from all sides of the political spectrum. The full force of the law should be brought down upon the perpetrator/s. Good thing that Hastings has a 24 hour police station to combat this sort of crime. By the way, I believe that crime has in fact gone down in Hastings, apart from crimes related to drug cultivation, manufacture and possession. Maybe Neale Burgess will have to march to save the jetty next.

22. Visual pollution arguably and regretably a personal stand I would suggest? With regard to “Illegally positioned electoral posters, my understanding and recent information on ienquiries is as follows “the law is actually different in the 3 months leading up to a “political event”, which includes an election.” Dingo, out of interest can you point me in the direction of any law that is being contravened? Your belief that crime has gone down is for what period exactly, keep in mind You can prove anything vaguely true with manipulated statistics which unfortunately has and continues to occur. Secondly, Unless there are satisfactory resources out there proactively detecting crime and processing crime then statistics will APPEAR to go down, Perception is reality I’m told. Fact is a lot of people dont report crime as they believe that it will not be investigated, unfortunately a lack of resources has that exact effect. Again, ask your local Police and unfortunately and more recently the Ambos (in confidence) if they believe they have the resources to meet public expectations, myself and my former Inspector of 38 years and who was in charge of the Mornington Peninsula and live in the area will without doubt give you first hand examples of why we clearly do not! Hastings 24 Hr Police station remains as such (skeletal by resourcing and not quite accurate by practical functionality ) only because of the work of a handful of commited and effected local residents and victims of crime! Yes Neale BURGESS, love him or hate him, was without doubt a primary contributor to that cause! I have missed something with your drug inference. I never thought a democratic march was very effective tool up until it actually did directly or indirectly save our station from permanent overnight closure. Its got to be better than the childish anti democratic processes I have seen in recent local industrial actions where prominent individuals were as it appears posting placards calling constituants exercising their democratic right not to strike “Scabs” though?

23. I would like to point out the Police numbers as Stated by the Labor Government and their candidates are full of holes, cover ups and mis-quotes.
    Personally I have seen, been personally affected or witnessed the aftermath of several violent attacks in the last 3 years. All but 1 was Unreported, therefore, didn’t make it into the Official Police Statistics.
    Almost 3 years I was witness to the aftermath of a Bomb attack at the back of the Somerville Woolwoths store. It was late Friday night and the Duty manager heard what happened and following Store procedure, called the Police. The Police came and later in the early morning, just after I had arrived at work, the Forensic Police arrived. They where there All day and I could see them while I had my morning tea, lunch and afternoon tea.
    I rang the family telling them what had happened, but when I got home, Nothing had been reported on the news, nothing in the daily papers, nothing on the radio or local papers.
    Several months later a Police van was stationed outside the store. When I finished I talked to the Police Officer who told me that the Bombing had been Hidden and not reported to Make the Labor Government Look Good with the figures. I was gobsmacked.
    Last year, while shopping at Hastings Woolworths, I noticed Police and Ambulance outside and a certain area Blocked off with tape. When I got outside I found out someone had been Murdered. Again this was kept quiet and Not reported because of the Labor Party so as to make their Crime report Figures look good. This one I raised with Mr Neale Burgess who raised the matter in Parliament asking why the true numbers Are Hidden.
    Finally my own Daughter has been subject to physical assault in school, the first time, I didn’t report it feeling nothing would happen, because lots of people told me that the Police are too busy to handle minor crimes like that.
    But later in the year she was Assaulted by an older girl in the school and this time being encourage by the staff at the school, I took my daughter to the Police and reported the Assault. With the help and support of Mr Burgess, who went to the school on our behalf, the school has now implemented a new, stronger and harsher bullying policy and punishment regime. This year my daughter is very happy with No problems at all.
    So as you can see, many many crimes are simply NOT reported and as such, do not go onto the Official Records, simply and more importantly DISHONESTLY to make the Labor government look good. This is where OUR tax money is going to HIDE the truth!

24. I cannot believe what I’ve just read. I dont care whether you vote Labor or Liberal but that is absolute tripe. Just because a crime is not reported does not mean that it doesnt go on the official statistics. The media decides which stories about crime are more newsworthy than others. Usually this is based on a number of things such as the identity of the victim (can the audience sympathise with them on the basis of race, gender, age etc.) and the concept of a moral panic (for instance binge drinking, knife crime etc.) There are many more categories of establishing newsworthiness which i wont go into but you get the picture. The media is awfully selective in which stories it reports on but this has ABSOLUTELY NO AFFECT on official statistics. I cant stress that enough! The fact that the police attended the ‘bombing’ or the murder means that it will be recorded on our crime statistics.

    Personally I think all this “tough on crime” stuff is garbage as well. Crime stats aren’t going anywhere. The statistics I read, use and view as part of my university degree (where criminology is my major) state that crime levels are remaining relatively constant. Again, the media just make us think that its going through the roof. The media back our governments into a corner by saying “too much knife crime: fix it, too much gang violence: fix it”. As a young man in his twenties it might shock you to know that I fall into the category of being the most likely to be the victim of a crime. Thats right a young male! Not the old lady next door as the media make us belive with so many stories of frightened elderly people. Don’t get me wrong, its horrible when the elderly are victims of crime but it just is not a regular occurence.

    So as part of the most at risk category in society how do I feel about crime levels? Not afriad one bit. You are more likely to be a victim of violent crime caused by someone you know rather than a knife weilding gang of binge drinking youths! I seriously hope this has cleared up some awful inconsistencies in the previous post. In fact I’m not even sure why something so uninformative was posted at all!

25. @ALH welcome to reality and not bias education.
    If a crime is not reported it is not put into the figures, that is fact. Just having the Police attend, does not mean it is in the system. True crime figures are hidden. Because so much crime goes un-reported, because people have had enough of the low Police numbers and slow responce times, that they simply Don’t report the crimes and those crimes Don’t go into the figures.

    My son and I talked to hundreds of locals while collecting names for the petitions To Save the Hastings Police Station, and many of them complained about that fact, they couldn’t be bothered ringing and reporting because the Police don’t come!

    I suggest ALH that instead of believing all that they tell you in Uni that you got out and talk to the locals that have been affected by this and really learn what is happening.
    We don’t have a perfect world and some people are put into positions of power because of their support of the labor party and they follow the labor line. These people get top jobs, without relevant qualifications, so you should be looking at how bias these people and organisations are, because they are hiding the True figures and the Truth.

26. Thank You CHEZZA for your comments and intelligence, you are a practical person and a very realistic person. Now I would have thought that a man or woman with a uni degree would have understood that if an incident is not reported or brought to the attention of the relevant response or statistical gathering organisation then obviously it is not going to be recorded because it is an unknown! Just because a police unit arrives does not mean that a crime is actually recorded in the the way you may expect based on theory.
    ALH with respect, you studied the theoretical “science” in uni for what 4 odd years or slightly more, you are forgetting that many of us actually worked the “science” in a professional theoretical and practical combination for terms of 18 years to 38 years (specifically) or more . we are the experts in the field and we know first hand what actually goes on. You said Crime stats are not going anywhere, True because they are most fabricated and manipulated to giev you a false perspective of the true crime facts, the fact is that the population has increased significanlty and the vast majority of voters in the country on both sides regard crime as a significant issue??? You are accurate in that the media only print what they feel will make headlines or what the Government or body at the time want them to print of more recent times. Have a look at this state Goverments media team numbers and expenditure! I am told it is the highest in the country. What I will give you some insight into is that idealistic theory as to how stats are collected is not as it appears, for example, if a particular crime is not at an satisfactory level given the circumstances then directions are circulated to record it differently. Aggravated Burglary was a classic example of this process. (too many for favourable reporting) It looks statistically better to call it simply as a burglary in initial reporting. Have you ever seen a number of Police units out conducting Preliminary Breath Tests at times a reasonable man would think strange, well in fact it is likely they are out purely and simply to increase the statistical number of tests required by the TAC to maintain funding and meet PSA requirements!! ALH, seriously, when you or a close friend or family member find themselves in a serious predicament that warrants an URGENT response by any of our three prime emergency services, then while you are waiting and hanging onto what you have left think seriously about what you have said . I seriously would not wish this on any person given my actual knowlege of the most likely outcome. Our “troops” do the best they can with what they have,, but what they have is clearly not enough

27. Chezza you seem to be confusing me. One minute you were talking about reporting of the crime in the newspapers and so on and the next you mention the reporting of crime in general. You spoke of the ‘bombing’ not being reported in the news because of a tactic to cover up statistics. But of course if the crime is not reported to police it does not appear on the stats. There may have been a misinterpretation of your comments for which I do apologise.

    I do still challenge you on the fact of the murder in Hastings. Firstly, (as Im sure Adam will agree) concluding that it is a murder there and then on the spot does not happen. It takes a long process of investigation and compiling all the evidence. (This isn’t CSI where it all falls into place!) And secondly, why would a member of the police tell you what happened? Ill pose the question to Adam – In your time as a police officer did you ever run out of a crime scene to tell a member ofthe local public about the crime?

    And say hypothetically that it was a clear cut murder, I find it very hard to believe that an officer would say I’m not recording this as a death just so the Labor government looks good. Even if an officer was so careless and disrespectful towards the loss of a human beings life, which I sincerely hope there isnt any, this still doesnt have anything to do with the government, to me it sounds more like an officer being careless and lazy and not doing his job. Again I sure hope this isn’t the case. I still don’t think its fair to blame the labor government just because one person shot their mouth off.

    To Adam I think your concerns about the Hastings station being stretched with numbers is an important problem. You have made previous comments about the governments approach to this station and how Rosy Buchanan viewed the situation when she was the sitting MP. I must ask you then, how do you see Neale Burgess’ approach? He has kept the station open for 24 hours (for which he believes he deserves overwhelming applause). But doesn’t this stretch the resources further with the station open longer hours?

    I have also pointed out on this forum earlier that his latest promise to have a Somerville 24 hours station isn’t going to help anything. It will further strecth resources in the area, and I question its necessity. Somerville turns into a ghost town after dark and I would think that any crime that occurs can be handled by officers from the Frankston, Hastings or Mornington Stations. And the Liberals want to talk about waste!! I have also been made aware by some members of the community (which I of course engage with as much as anyone else Chezza. Just because Im at university doesnt mean I’ve lost touch with the people in my community) that in stations such as Springvale and Dandenong they pool their people and resources together and help each other out at different times of the day. Surely with 3 station in close proximity in our area that is sufficient.

    And finally I would ask that slagging off university lecturers and professors is completely inane. As a student I am taught to be critical about what I hear and dont take things at face value. The lecturers however work tirelessly in the field as well as being educators, and cant be merely labelled theorists. Many of the people who have taught me have experience in the field, have conducted long periods of research into their specific subjects and engage with the community on these issues. For example one of my tutors who had just completely he PHD worked with the homicide squad in order to help improve the investigation of murders. Other lecturers have worked in prisons to and based much of their work around the practices

    and experiences of prison. Others have been out on the street researching about drug crime interviews and engaging with the people who use drugs and those who are trying to minimise drug use. So being at uni will qualify me to be more than just a theorist. Just because you may have cuffed a few in your time Adam it does not mean that these ‘theorists’ have no influence on the policies of thecriminal justice system and the way you carried out your job. It also does not mean that they do not work out in the field either.

28. ALH you are a breath of sanity. The posts by Chezza are truly misguided and just not credible to anyone with even a very basic knowledge of police procedures. The Hastings police station may be understaffed and could benefit from a co-operative arrangement with neighbouring stations.Both major parties have promised extra police and police command decides where they are most needed. I have had dealings with Hastings police and found them decent and honorable and not cynical and indiscreet as Chezza portrays them. As for Adam, he is carrying a chip the size of a baseball bat on his shoulder and is using it to whack anyone who disagrees with him, rather than using a reasoned argument. Like ALH I have the disadvantage of a university education in statistics and am burdened with the capacity to think clearly and discern cause from effect. Actual reported and recorded crimes and peoples’ perception of crime levels in their area can also be quite different. By the way, is there a record in Hansard of Neale Burgess raising the issue of unreported murder in Hastings? .

29. Mustafa, thanks for your promoting my apparent effectiveness in delivering an educated and first hand informed response to issues I disagree with! if you were as open with your identification as you are with your misguided and ill informed uneducated comments then you would have some credibility! The only chip as you call it, or passion I have relates to identifying corrupt and dishonest members of the police force and government in the interest of public safety, yes in current times that is a substantial issue agreed to by the majority of Victorians, it directly effects innocent people of the community and I have concerns in that area, the lies and corruption and erosion of emergency and essential services are escalating, I dont know if the Libs would do any better but i certainly arn’t going to sit back and let this three term government go unchecked! Can you as a uni educated thinker tell me what I have to gain personally by identifying corruption and shortfalls of the emergency services provided to the state?. I cannot understand why self promoted and so called educated persons would not be supportive of a call for increased community resources to emergency services and I question your first hand knowlege of actual police procedures! As a former senior training member of Victoria Police and the Hastings Office, I took no offence at anything Chezza stated! Any indescretion is comes from the senior end of the Department and politicians not the troops. The so called educated facet of Vicpol management hasnt really shown leadership or public concern in more recent disaters has it Mustafa? One reason peoples perception of crime and associated levels of crime is different Mustafa is that people have differing views on what constitutes serious crime as they see it! for example, defacing political signs may be seen by one as somehow addressing visual pollution however the fact is it is a criminal offence (the same as damaging a valuable motor vehicle of property) it carries significant penalties and the best part, it has no statute of limitations so the offenders can be brought to justice at any time in the future! So if you want to be true to your word then identify yourself and lets have an open public discussion or meeting to show reasoned and qualified argument on the matter. If you did yourself the courtesy of attending public safety forums in the past then perhaps we would have discussed the matter with community balance.

30. ALH, As with anyone addressing thes issues I am happy to meet and discuss the issues in a civil manner, unfortunately there is more to both side of the story that what is portrayed in the heat of the moment post process. So if you are interested, I am happy to sit and have a cuppa with you. For the record, I have no issues with “qualifications” in any form, we need balance and we need understanding on both sides. I seriously dont believe it is an individual party issue on either side, I beleive our democratic system has some issues particularly with Seperation of Powers. If it was an ideal world playing to the rules then the theoretical guides would be spot on! we need to address the roots of the problem not the effects! I have never promoted another Police Station and Neale will tell you that first hand! The Carrum Downs station is a classic example of what I see as political interference!!! So if you are interested let me know? By the way, I can count on my hand the number of times I used Cuffs or for that matter got involved in the use of serious force!

31. Hello Adam, ALH, Dingo and others
    I have read and monitored all of your comments over the past couple of weeks and would like to add my two bobs worth.
    Firstly, Hasings Police Station may have its lights on 24 hours a day but it doesn’t guarantee that someone is home. If you are the victim of a road rage attack of a serious assualt between the hours of 2300 and 0700 and you flle your attackers to seek the safe refuge of the Hastings Police Station then be prepared to talk to the police via intercom whilst possibly being attacked. A 24 hour Police Station should be a police station that is open to the public 24 hours, not just occupied by police for 24 hours.
    Secondly, Morale levels within the police force are at an all time low. Mr Brumby politicised the police force with the appointment of Christine Nixon who went on to destroy what was Australias best and most respected force. Internally there were very senior members who were overlooked when Nixon was appointed thus causing the disgruntled mumours and morale problems starting at the top and filtering down. If you talk with local members you will be overwhelmed by how disgruntled they are with the internal politics within VICPOL.
    The current government had promised (via political SPIN) that the police station would remain 24 hours.
    In relation to resourcing issues, many many more police are needed in all parts of Melbourne and country areas. Hastings is not isolated and in relation to neighboring police stations helping out, Rosebud, Frankston and Mornington are in the same boat as Hastings. As far as the government claiming that they have increased numbers over the past term, I ask the question as to how many serving police are actually not at work. Force command now allows for part time policing and also allows members to take 12 or 24 months leave without pay and obtain employement elsewhere. All of the part time and absent members are still counted as a number but are not available.
    Unfortunately, whether you like it or not, the Government has had three terms to fix the problems and haven’t, it is a disgrace. It is time for a change and to put the pressure on a new government to implement the changes that are required. In relation to Neale BUrgess, I think he has done a reasonable job over the past 4 years, and would like to see him as our local member with his party governing. I think it has been a pretty hard task being the local member when in opposition.
    Finally, In relation to Crime Stats, Recordng proceedures have been changed over the past few years that now group offences together and then record as a single offence. For example an offender may go on a crime spree and committ SEVEN burglaries in a 24 hour period and when he is apprehended committing the 7th offence he is then charged with all burglaries but the records will show One Offender – One Report Of Crime – 7 Offences – 7 Charges. In the old days this was recorded as SEVEN different crimes committed. Whilst crime stats may be remaining steady, this infact shows to the mastermind who implemented the changes in reporting, that crime has increased DRAMATICALLY. You will all come up with theories and stats but this is the FACT.
    PS to ADAM and GORDON – keep up the great work in your fight for what you know id right. And that is from the silent majority within the community and police force.

32. CRIME, thank you for your input and insight into the police force. But I do have a few questions for you… some of them I have posed previously and I feel have gone unanswered.

    Firstly, in relation to the Hastings police station. It seems to me that people on both sides of this argument have admitted their scepticism towards the 24 Hour nature of the station. But I know for a fact, that upon meeting Neale Burgess, talking with his supporters and seeing his office, he prides himself on this achievement. This feather in his cap is something he loves to promote. But whether you like him or not… we have all noted on here that this station is only 24 hours in name but not in the way we expect it to operate.

    Secondly I ask the question ONCE AGAIN about the necessity of Burgess’s plan for a Somerville police station! If everyone here has noted the struggles of police numbers in the local area, then why would we vote for a man who plans to set up a new station to stretch resources even further?

    And lastly, CRIME, you mentioned about the recording of crimes in groupings i.e 7 burglaries by one person as one grouping of crime rather than 7. I ask your opinion whether you would say that this is due to trying to make the Labor government look better as Chezza believed earlier? Or is just a way of more efficiently recording statistics by grouping them? Personally, my guess would be that Chezza’s belief is just showing her political bias and willingness to attack Labor at all costs. You have already discredited that opinion by showing that crimes are still being recorded by police, but just in a more efficiently organised manner. Thats how I see it anyway! Interested to hear your thoughts and other peoples!!

33. ALH this may set you at ease a little with regard to your “unanswered” questions, The Police station was going to be left un manned, thats right unmanned before Neal and a lot of concerned parties intervened, including the Police Association. as I pointed out, offences against the firearms act were committed on several occasions when management decided it wise to leave the station un attended, with a lot of fire power, ammo radio equipment etc etc and no security. The police station is not just a lunch room for the street coppa, it is as you should understand, an important part of the police safe working process and critical to ongoing day to day operations, it is also a major safety issue for the public which CRIME pointed out in one example. It is complicated if you do not have a first hand understanding of policing (practical) or you have been a victim requiring such a resource, I stated a few times that I am happy to meet with you and discuss the matter at length? For the record, Neal BURGESS did all the footwork in organisation of the march and yes we appreciate that and all his other efforts in our quest to fight this corrupt and unsafe situation. He did in fact effectively save the station from routine overnight closure, as result there is at least a member in the station (you possibly do not understand what that means to operations, but we do and it is very very important,) In saying that, it is not in accordance with safe work practices or common sense for one person and possibly a trainee to be left one up as was proved in sydney not so long ago, this is why the fight continues and Neale is still an important player regardless of the up and coming election! What you are forgetting is that Neale BURGESS is an individual, he is OUR representative to the Liberal Party as are to us the reps from the other parties ! As opposition for three terms I am told it is difficult to do much else other than demonstrate in a public manner and raise issues in parliament in the short time you have to do so!
    Somerville Police Station is not our priority knowing the liklihood of outcome with the current management, it is however with the remainder of his plan take in to account, this includes the added resources needed which I will add did not occur with the Carrum Downs Police Station. If that occurs then the police station will contribute in many ways including providing an anchor for the the retention of resources, provide a safe haven for locals without transport to outer stations and provide a much faster turn around for processing offenders at this side of town.
    Recording of stats, with respect, if stats are to be used to demonstrate the reason for not providing necessary resources then it is a great idea to conveniently leave out the actual numbers. Police patrol statistic cards are a crock, they do not accurately represent the offences, times or numbers. Statistics do play an important role but unfortunately their misuse is common, they are manipulated by Governments and others for intentions other than for what they should be used.
    I made some enquiries regarding the “murder” and I was unable to find any detail, you asked if I would run out and tell someone on the street about an offence, well thats showing a little lack of police operations knowlege and inadvertantly, public contact is common at crime scenes and people being people may occasionaly and unintentionally say the wrong thing at the wrong time especially before all the facts are fully known. In that case, the portrayed murder may have been investigated and found not to be. As for the political reporting of the incident, that does not concern me unless their was deliberate intent to hide or cover up something?? In essence, what CHEZZA was broadly stating was pretty accurate across the board.
    To assist in your thought processing, get out and speak first hand with local street coppas, ambos and firies, then speak to the actual victims of crime in the area! When you see a letter box or fence destroyed (criminal damage) ask the victims if they reported it and if they didn’t, why? I can tell you first hand what most will tell you and it is supportive to what we are saying!
    Hope this answers your unanswered questions.

    Mustafa if you are sitiing in the shadows, in review of some of your unexplained comments, I could not help thinking that you do remind me so much of Rosie herself!!

34. Sorry I haven’t contributed – I’ve been busy with my other life. It seems that all are in furious agreement about the need for a genuine 24 hour police service at Hastings and that we don’t currently need one at Somerville. As long as crime statistics are collected consistently, one can compare them year on year or week on week and observe trends of increase or decrease. Surely well trained cops and office staff can do this task. To me policing Hastings is not the major issue in this election and I cannot credit Neale Burgess for any advancements in this regard. He is a notorious self-publicist and passenger upon popular issues. I seem to remember the petition blanks left in shops for collection of signatures had a large photo of himself on them. To me. marching behind Burgess for any cause has all the appeal of following the cane toads into the Kimberley.

35. What is required at Hastings Police Station is at least 2 members performing watchouse duites over night and this then allows the front door to remain open. You might suggest that this is a waste of resources, however the burden on police members in completing paperwork could be eliminated somewhat by allowing the members to complete their corro overnight generally with very little disruption. This would then also free up the need to roster members on during daytime hours for paperwork purposes. Neale Burgess did a great job in achieving a result of the police station not being closed completely however the force command/government hoodwinked Neale and the community by not providing enough resources to actually keep the lock on the door open.
    As far as a police station in Somerville is concerned, consider this. The population of Somerville is now larger than that of Hastings with enormous growth both commercially and residentially. With new freeways etc making access to Somerville much easier it is only going to grow further. The need for a fully resourced (new police numbers, not moving and stretching existing numbers) police station will be need in the very near future. In an ideal world the mere visible police presence deters certain crimes being committed. Unfortunately in this day and age, the crooked element within society are aware that Hastings Police have such a large area to respond to, infact all stations on the peninsula are in the same position. I beleive that a police station with a fully resourced roster would be of enormous benefit to the communities of Somerville, Baxter, Tyabb and Pearcedale. What the Peninsula desperately requires is an immediate increase of probably about 30 extra police and then a further increase in numbers when new stations are built.
    There is obviously a huge cost involved in implementing this, but when you look at the mess that this current government has got us in, the mind boggles as to what we could have done with the 1.5 BILLION DOLLARS wasted on MYKI and also the huge revenue increase in speed camera fines.

36. Mustafa, you apparently have chosen not to consider the advantages of having a Police Station AND the required resources combined?

    Finally, some broader consideration. its not about the individual it is about the “party”. Three terms and the Labor Party has a lot to answer for! Not saying the Libs WiLL do any better, I honestly cnat, but realistically at present we have two major parties and three terms of nothing needs a change somewhere? Perhaps the “hung” parliament issues will force these parties into change for the better?

    Consider this re stats, the way they are collected is not consistent and changes to suit the trends. The only thing consistent is the manipulation when they are collected and finally submitted. You should understand that there are people with extensive knowlege skills and competencies behind the collection of the stats and presentation to the interested parties, they appear to have suitably biased algorithms for a required outcome? Well from what I see, they certainly do!

    Well trained cops and office staff are instructed by politicians how to collect stats, if it was not the case then perhaps stats would not lie? Seperation of Powers issue again.

    Its not about Neale or the other individuals, it is what and who he or she represents and what ethics they adopt in execution of their role – Neale BURGESS and his image (like it or hate it) is well known locally, he has at least actively represented his constituants and has achieved some significant headway on many issues. Who are these newcomers on the scene?

    To establish an understanding of your comment once again, Can you list the popular issues that Neale has allegedly become a passenger on as opposed to follow up on at community request?

37. Law and order is a serious issue, and there should not be one law for those in a position of power and another for the rest of us. Adam says that the only “passion I have relates to identifying corrupt and dishonest members of the police force and government” I can’t help but agree with this aim, it is just where he places the credit for local achievements that I dispute. The Hastings Police and the community saved the cop shop, not Burgess, even though he marched a bit and presented a pitifully small petition in parliament. We all have a story, good or bad, about our interactions with the police and government representatives. I have a reliable record of evidence to support this story. It is even sillier than Chezza’s story about murder in Hastings but happens to be true.
    During 2007 Neale Burgess was pestering Hastings Police to investigate and charge one of his love rivals whom he alleged was threatening his safety by planning to poison his coffee. It is known locally as “The Great Coffee Plot”. How this crime could come about was not explained. Perhaps the rivals would meet over supper at a Right to Life Meeting. The Police did “investigate” as they were required to do after Burgess and his lover had laid a complaint Of course, the investigation came up empty. No charges were laid, no fault found, all a beat-up by Boofhead Burgess, but it was nasty and stressful at the time. Mr Burgess most likely thought that Hastings Police would do his bidding as a reward for his support of their valid claims for extra staff and resources. Fortunately, the Hastings Police had more sense than he did.

38. Dingo I’m not surprised at this story – it confirms stories I have heard over the local barbecues.
    There are more important election issues than those photo opportunities which Burgess supports, and there are many more communities in this electorate than Hastings. For me care of the environment is paramount and the working conditions of cops should be the concern of their union. Many “sea changers” have moved into the electorate and the consciousness of ordinary people like me has changed about the welfare of the planet.
    Neale Burgess has grandstanded about child welfare and stood vigil with right to life and so on. I have heard he rarely appears in parliament, and when he does it is brief and noisy, then he retreats to his office to work on the his web image and publicity. Maybe they are all like this?

39. What sort of man (leave alone Politician) stops a good Father seeing his children.? Neale Burgess, why Neale have you turned your step children against such a good wholesome man? makes you wonder what influence you will have over electrate? Think about, good comes to good!

40. Broadly speaking, this is my policy wishlist.
    Seriously combat climate change and protect the environment, eg. shut down Hazelwood and build infrastructure for renewable energy and be frugal and reliable with water policies.
    Fight animal cruelty, especially in food, trophy and pet industries. Animals are in our power and at present, we don’t look good. Profit is king and we can be cruel or just thoughtless.
    Planning and public transport must be better. Transport must be safer and not all centred on the CBD. Planning is an easy fix with some new values–transparency and consistency and regard for our heritage (look at Frankston and Mornington – ugh) Human friendly – after all, we have to live with the stuff and what other criteria is better?
    Law and order – more and better- deployed cops. I believe knife crime is on the decrease, I hope this culture dies the death it deserves. Street and railway safety is crucial. Education for all of us in ethics and tolerance. I love the Boot Camp idea.
    I want my representative to embrace these ideas and be genuinely involved with the communities within the electorate and be energetic in the parliament. This is not Neale Burgess. Even the Sunday HUN today has come out in support of Labor for strong government.

41. I believe that Neale Burgess has belatedly joined the “Movember” charity campaign. His illegally positioned poster at Balnarring now sports a Hitler moustache.

42. Dingo, I don’tknow what planet you are on or from, but I was heavily involved in the fight for better police resources and to keep the police station 24 hours and I can tell you this:- Neale Burgess was involved every step of the way, from the initial concept and planning to the participation and marching. I have been a local community member for about 25 years and have found Neale to be vary pro active and approachable. As for the last Labor member I can honestly say that I can’t remember even seeing her around town.
    Whilst we all have our own strong opinions and political sides you only had to watch the Channel 9 news on Saturday night to witness the two bumbling bozos by the name of Lenders and Holding. Mr Holding if you remember was the police minister who is probably responsible for the Law and Order mess that we are in today, but then Side Show Bob wasn’t much better.
    Love or Hate Neale Burgess, he is still the strongest local candidate who is connected to the community.

43. I find it very hard to see how anyone can argue with your wishlist Mustafa! If only…

    Just to stray the conversation away from law and order for a moment… As a young person myself who finds many Liberal policies despicable and unappealing as a young voter, I’d like to make the point about other young voters I have spoken with. Most of these young people are not attracted to the Liberal Party in State or Federal politics. Whilst some have said State politics is more interesting to them and concerns issues that are far closer to them, they are still voting Labor simply because they do not associate with the Liberal mindset. These are all young people who did not vote in 2006 and live in the Hastings electorate.

    I would like to note here that Chezza’s earlier attack here about not speaking to people in the community and not being connected here is completely quashed! I just wondered how many young people Chezza has spoken to the same conerns about the Liberal Party have been heard.

    I know it only represents a small section of the community, but it seems to me that first time voters have had enough of Burgess in their local area and are satisified with the Premiership of Bracks/Brumby. I also must branch out here and make the comment about my colleagues at university who I have studied Australian and Victorian Politics with. Here I believe there is a more widespread public opinion of politics with a few staunch Liberal voters appearing here and there (who dont believe the Libs have a hope in hell in this election I might add!!) But I may be going out on a limb here by saying that many of these people are privately educated young people who were born into money (Ted Baillieu anyone?!) and attended Melbourne High School or Scotch College etc. and vote along the lines of the Brighton/Toorak living parents. I just wonder how these people (and Ted included) have views about our education system after having the privileged education they had.

    I worked hard at a reasonably rough high school to get where I am and I know many others who did to. Personally I dont usually go for such hardlined policies like this, but I actually believe in the boot camp idea. I condemn these Liberal voting parents who can Brumby for this promise, because I doubt their child’s school would have ever seen their principal walking around with a large black eye after being hit by a student. Drugs were everywhere, the facilities were vandalised, fruit was a throwing object rather than food! Such behaviour and lack of respect should be disciplined with a boot camp.

    Finally, I make the point about non-Liberal voters at universities. With what is being taught to us (some of which I have shared in this forum) people find it very difficult to side with the Liberal side of politics. The simply do not appeal to young people. Thats not to say everybody then votes Labor, because of course we know a lot of young people vote for socially progressive parties such as the Greens. My overall point is this. The ALP might not be perfect, but they are damn sure a hell of a lot more appealing than the Liberals. I think this may play a small factor in Hastings as only a small swing is required and if there is a trend of first time voters voting Labor (as I have seen) this could go a long way to helping Mr Hosking win the seat.

44. Looks like this area has good local knowledge on here, so I’d like to ask how the proposed relocation of Melbourne’s deep water port to Hastings is playing down there. Has it got any attention at all, or is it a major part of anyone’s campaign? I would be very interested to find out.

45. wow so much bias and bigotry written by several, Dingo who mentions the sign again, that has once again been vandalised. Warning Dingo, the locals called me today and told me about the crime and told me they will stand guard with shot gun because they are sick and tired of this type of labor bullshit of abuse and destruction on the Liberal members poster. Not very lawful I must say, but that is how angry some are.

    ALH, I see your reciting the manipulation from the labor loving unionist that love to make out every Liberal member and supporter is rich and from private schools. Very Wrong, before you open your mouth again, how about you check the school records of prominent labor MP’s and you will see that many of them also had a private education and now have more money than most people.
    About talking to people, I speak to many people, with my paid work and with my volunteer work, I deal with many issues and problems and age groups from very young to very old.

    ALH as to the bootcamp idea, I can see your passion BUT a 10 day stay away from home will not do the trick. What you need is more disipline from the word go. When a parent says no & threatens a punishment, they need to come through with it. School needs to have punishment & carry it out. Police need to have Zero tolerance & stop the minor crime, you clean that up & stop it, the more serious ones diminish. That approach was the tactic used in America and cleaned up some of there worst cities. Parents should be held more accountable for their childrens crimes. This would very quickly stop many young because their parents wont put up with paying for their childs crime, time after time.

    Finally Dingo, you really take the cake with your labor loving way of attacking the man. Just like the federal labor did and now the State labor are doing by attacking the leader of the Victorian Liberals. Gladly most people aren’t fooled by the LIES and nasty tactics that you and the labor party are doing. Was talking to many today and alot of the talk was about this very thing. You will be very happy to know that many of them where infact labor voters who are disgusted with this and will now vote for the Liberal National Coalition. After they look at the record of mis-management of our taxpayer money and schemes that are still to come into working order BUT have gone millions and MILLIONS over budget, and the nasty personal attacks, they will now vote for the party that they can trust, the Liberal/National Coalition.

46. I raised some very serious issues about how personal power granted to its representative by an electorate can be abused. These issues have not been answered or even challenged, nor have the instances of inappropriate police responses raised by several bloggers and potential GBH planned in Balnarring as reported by Chezza. I am strongly rejecting Neale Burgess as my representative and stating why. Others have clearly agreed especially Joni who is the bravest of us all and includes her name.
    A person is like a photograph collection, there are some photos we put proudly on display, there are other slightly grubby ones hidden away in drawers, and there are others which are blurred or badly focused and hard to see. We bloggers don’t have to “expose” ourselves, but Neale Burgess’ has asked us to vote him into office while only (ad nauseum) displaying his prettiest face. Another person could do his job and better represent the whole community, not just those who are useful to further Neale’s own goals I know that in a democracy all these groups need to be represented, but so do the rest of us. I am not a welded-on labor voter nor am I a graffitist, just a disillusioned, disenfranchised and amused bystander.

47. And there goes Chezza jumping on the high horse and calling everyone bigots in a Gordon Brownesque performance! As was mentioned by Chezza’s own admission, some Liberals are taking up vigilantism to defend a sign destroyed by petty everyday vandalism. Two wrongs…..

    And I cannot believe the stupidity here. Personally, I will confess I have not seen the destruction of the billboard, but I can almost guarantee that it isnt a Labor ploy to go around destroying advertising for the Libs. Any person who takes an interest in politics, or joins a political party (in this case the ALP) would go around and do that. I am sorry Chezza, but you cannot pin this one on the ALP taking a deliberate attack on Burgess. What I will do is use some powers of deduction and say that this is your run of the mill, oppotunistic street crime. Neale Burgess with his countless billboard stick out like a sore thumb and provides an easy target for deliquents who believe in vandalism and graffiti. Perhaps these are the kinds of kids we should be sending to boot camp… but hang on Chezza will not let us have that either!

    Chezza you would disagree with young people, such as the people who assaulted and bullied your daughter, those who assaulted my principal, those who graffiti and vandalise public property and school property for that matter should not be sent to a boot camp and taught discipline. The factors you outlined miss the mark I am afraid. You assume that every parent is a good parent and will teach their own children this discipline. This does not always happen. Many parent do not care or cannot control their children. Secondly the boot camp is there because the school punishments aren’t working. These young people continue to rebel and wreak havoc on their school and local community.

    You rightly defended yourself and said you do interact with a wide range of age groups. But you neglected to tell us what the young people are saying and whether my stories reflect yours!

    And lastly,I did indulge in the old stereotype of Affluence = Liberal voter, worrking class unionist- ALP voter. BUt the point I was making there was about university students who vote Liberal. And of course you went and made yourself look sillly by saying Labor MP’s “NOW” have lots of money… well of course they do… they are in high paid positions as politicians. This doesnt mean that they were born into the family that own the “Bailieu-Myer” corporation! My backhander at Ted was there because he is our RICHEST Victorian state politician and was most certainly born into it! I think the notion of Affluence and voting trends isnt a hard and fast rule but certainly has some merit. I dont think Chezza has looked outside of her electorate and considered the reviews of other electorates on this site. Take Frankston for instance- Marginal electorate because it combines the rich on Olivers Hill and the booming businesses with the working class and petty criminals. The corresponding Dunkley electorate in Federal Parliament is also marginal because of this factor but also the voting areas in Mt Eliza and Mornington. Now take the MOrnington state electorate. The 2nd safest Liberal seat in Victoria. Mornington, mt Eliza, Mt Martha and so on. Areas that are full of affluence. Like a said I dont believe in it as a hard and fast rule but the trends are there in this case.

    One last point… the Liberal party are throwing about their love of being in a coalition! CHezza mentioned it, and its seen on there advertsing with Peter Ryan speaking on some ads. But lets not forget that this “Coalition” failed Victoria when King Jeff was in power. The man who epitomised bigotry, arrogance and ruled the state with unbounded hubris, decided that country Victoria were ‘the toenails of the state’ had no idea that it was John Brumby running a strong campaign in Country Victoria although Bracks was ALP leader. All im saying here is lets not go to far with the Coalition speak before they can actually show us they can work well together.

48. Oh and Id like to add – that was very well said Dingo! 🙂

49. ALH,
    These are your exact words “a sign destroyed by petty everyday vandalism”
    Let me tell you that this “petty everyday vandalism” exists because of a neglected under resourced police force that cannot investigate each and every criminal damage as they call it. The act of “petty everyday vandalism” or CRIMINAL DAMAGE costs our community hundreds and thousands of dollars each year. Its not that petty to the victims of this sensless crime. A bootcamp is not the answer. Take a day out of your life and go and sit in at the Childrens Court at Frankston and see what this government has done to our court system. There are virtually no “convictions” anymore regardless of the offences and certainly no punishment handed out. There is no deterent for the young today as the chances of being caught, convicted or puished is almost zero. 10 days at a bootcamp will be just a holiday.

50. CRIME, I take it that you therefore agree with me that vandalising a Neale Burgess billboard was not a dirty Labor tactic but just an standard case of graffiti by a youth? I drove down Humphries Road yesterday and saw that Geoff Shaw’s postet had been ‘tagged’. Im really certain that a member of the ALP would go out of their way to scribble a tag on an opposition poster. Surely you can agree with me on this at least, and not with Chezza’s nonsense.
    I havent seen it, but my guess would be that an ALP members poster would have been graffitied somewhere in Victoria, because as you inform us, and as we all know, graffiti is all too common. This also means that I do not that that a vandalised ALP poster is a dirty Liberal tactic.

    However, your points about the under-resourced police force are very valid and I sympathise that there just isnt the police numbers to catch every vandal criminally damaging public and private property. I, like many, hate the sight of graffiti especially when its on someones shop, home, fence or school. I also do not try and defend the court system because I agree that most of the people who are court will not be punished by the courts. But here’s where I think my Criminology studies look at this issue a step further…

    Graffiti may cost a lot of money and show a lot of disrespect for the community. But very often, these young people are often underprivileged and have little opportunities in life. But whilst they are commiting a criminal act, the justice system is pushing for reform and rehabilitation so the person can be put to better use in society. Punishing this crime is not the answer. Many programs are set up to be able to give these kids a chance to do productive artwork or photography, so they don’t go and spray paint a train or shop. By doing this, the justice system aims to keep these people from future vandalism and keep them away from further criminal activity, so less contact with the CJS.

    I have had many of my colleague take a very progressive stance and wish to adopt a much more rehabilitative outlook for the CJS. However, I do believe that our society needs the aspect of punishment and would never suggest that crimes should not be punished by the CJS. I just think in this circumstance, we are talking about young graffitists, who could easily be reformed and deterred from future criminal activity with productive programs. We aren’t talking about Ted Bundy or abhorrent child rapists who can’t be rehabilitiated.

    Lastly, I dont think the boot camp will be a holiday. I watched a UK show called ‘Brat Camp’ where disrepectful, violent and troubled youth were taught respect and discipline in a harsh boot camp setup. I think this idea can work if applied properly. I just ask what has Ted Baillieu come up with? He has just said he wants more police and he will be tough on crime…. How will you do that Ted? Ummmmmmm……. 😛

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